i've been dying to ask this question for years:.
jws love to say they are not young earth creationists.
surely, then, they must accept that dinosaurs lived long before humans and original sin.
I've been dying to ask this question for years:
JWs love to say they are NOT young earth creationists. Surely, then, they must accept that dinosaurs lived long before humans and original sin. So why did dinosaurs suffer injury, infection, disease, predation, and probably a lot of pain???
had a very long and frustrating debate last night.. .
jws like to say that god has the ability to foresee the future, but can chose not to look.
this, they claim, removes the problem of predestination/preordination.. .
Thanks for the help guys! The way my opponent went red in the face at my inability to understand, I thought maybe I was missing something. This person was adamant that choosing not to look, but having the ability to look, eliminates predestination. Yikes.
had a very long and frustrating debate last night.. .
jws like to say that god has the ability to foresee the future, but can chose not to look.
this, they claim, removes the problem of predestination/preordination.. .
Hi all. Had a very long and frustrating debate last night.
JWs like to say that God has the ability to foresee the future, but can chose not to look. This, they claim, removes the problem of predestination/preordination.
How does that work??
1. Does God look into a 'crystal ball' of unalterable future events? If so, can it not be said that those events are predestined to occur? If God chooses not to look, what difference does it make?
JWs seem to believe that so long as God doesn't look at his 'crystal ball', no one - not even God - knows the future. But if the ABILITY to foresee absolute future events exists, is the future not absolutely set?
2. Does God simply discern what the future will most probably hold? This is what I try to do when planning for the future, but the events I 'foresee' are by no means absolutely certain. No predestination here.
3. (This is an extension of #2) Does God tell us what He will cause in the future, and then make that prediction happen? Again, this is similar to what I do in my own life, it's just I can never be absolutely certain of my abilities. No predestination here.
What I need to know is what JWs think. Is it option #1? How the heck do they rationalize out of predestination??
Thanks!
PS: I’m an Atheist ex-JW, but I could never wrap my head around this one!
i just found out that a co-worker of mine is a ex-jw....she's being pressured to go back to the khall...she says everytime she goes to visit her family, they're telling her how jehovah still loves her...blah blah blah...thankfully she has her own apartment!.
i do see how her upbringing in the cult has affected her...she's soft and overly kind, but she's a real sweetheart...the down side: people take advantage of her.. should i tell her that i too am a jw and understands what she's going through with her family or should i just tell her that "spirituality is a personal thing and don't feel guilted into doing something you don't want" ect....the thing is, she talks alot and if i tell her that i'm suppose to be a jw, then the entire workplace will know.... what should i do?
my only aim is to have her not feel guilted in going back...she said her family has been trying to get her back in, but she's resisting it...the other issue, her son stays with her jw sister (she didn't disclose why)...and my co-worker tells me that her son is becoming a "jw convert".. please i need some advice!.
Hey (insert name here). I heard you're having trouble with family due to religious differences. It's sad that this happens in the 21st century! You know, I've had a similar experience. My family is part of a fundamentalist evangelical cult (never mind which one...). They've tried to guilt me into joining/coming back. But you know, I can't bring myself to live that lie - even if it means closer family ties. Living life with as few false ideas as possible is important to me, and probably you too. Do you know what my parent's church teaches? They actually believe in Noah's Flood! My father told me that once upon a time, four thousand years ago, there was a magic floating sky ocean that collapsed onto the earth, killing all life! Can you imagine? Why would I pretend to believe such nonsense at a time when science has proven otherwise? Nope, living that lie is not for me, or you. Don't feel bad, be glad.
fyi: 'the thinking atheist' podcast this week will be on jehovah's witnesses.
should be fun!.
FYI: 'The Thinking Atheist' podcast this week will be on Jehovah's Witnesses. Should be fun!
since this topic of protesting assemblies recently came up, i was wondering .
what would be the some of the most proficient and perhaps strongest message.
to place on a placard to show as the people arrived at the venue.
Jehovah's Witnesses Believe in
MAGIC FLOATING SKY OCEAN
Do You?
Jehovah's Witnesses Believe
MOUNT EVEREST IS 4K YEARS OLD
Do You?
Jehovah's Witnesses Believe
HYPER 'MICRO' EVOLUTION
Do You?
and so forth.....
if you believe what is officially stated on the jw website, jws are not creationists.
.
the fact that the exact jw belief is in fact specifically called "day-age creationism" seems to have alluded them.
JWs love to say they're nothing like those crazy Young Earthers. They list two important differences:
1. JWs believe creation took place over much longer time period.
2. JWs don’t push their views politically.
What Witnesses fail to point out, is there really aren’t any other differences.
Young Earthers claim that the earth gets it's appearance of great age from Noah's Flood, which caused: collapse of the 'heavenly ocean', changes in radiation levels, shortened life spans, messed-up radio carbon dating, re-shuffling of continents over a few months, flash ice ages and frozen wooly mammoths, disappearance of dinosaurs, change in human and animal diets, carving of great canyons, rising of mountain ranges, all sedimentary rock layers, sea shells on top of mountains, super fast "micro" evolution, and so on....
Young Earthers also believe in: Noah's arc, angels, demons, God, sin, heaven, Jesus, human sacrifice pleases God, inerrant bible, 6000 years of human existence, nearly all secular ancient world history is a lie, and so on....
This is precisely what Jehovah's Witnesses believe.
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[endif]i was just sent the article "creation declares the glory of god!
i think it might contain the stupidest paragraph i have ever read:.
SBF: "There is absolutely no comfort in science. "
Science gives the comfort of ever increasing accurate knowledge.
I can rest easy knowing that no human sacrifice is required to redeem me.
When I die, I die. Death is not punishment.
I will probably die of old age, not tooth decay at 48 years old.
Religion offers demonstrably false comfort. False comfort is no comfort at all.
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[endif]i was just sent the article "creation declares the glory of god!
i think it might contain the stupidest paragraph i have ever read:.
I was just sent the article "Creation Declares the Glory of God!" (w04 6/1 pp.9-14). I think it might contain the stupidest paragraph I have ever read:
" Scientific research is limited—restricted to what humans can actually observe or study. Otherwise it is mere theory or guesswork. Since “God is a Spirit,” he simply cannot be subjected to direct scientific scrutiny. It is arrogant, therefore, to dismiss faith in God as unscientific. Scientist Vincent Wigglesworth of Cambridge University observed that the scientific method itself is “a religious approach.” How so? “It rests upon an unquestioning faith that natural phenomena conform to ‘laws of nature.’” So when someone rejects belief in God, is he not simply exchanging one type of faith for another? In some cases, disbelief appears to be a deliberate refusal to face the truth. The psalmist wrote: “The wicked one according to his superciliousness makes no search; all his ideas are: ‘There is no God.’”"
"Scientific research is limited—restricted to what humans can actually observe or study."
Agreed.
"Otherwise it is mere theory or guesswork."
Agreed.
" Since “God is a Spirit,” he simply cannot be subjected to direct scientific scrutiny."
Therefore God is "mere theory or guesswork." God by this definition is indistiguoshable from something that does not exist.
"It is arrogant, therefore, to dismiss faith in God as unscientific."
My brain has turned to liquid.
"Scientist Vincent Wigglesworth of Cambridge University observed that the scientific method itself is “a religious approach.” How so? “It rests upon an unquestioning faith that natural phenomena conform to ‘laws of nature.’”"
(Classic example of quote mining) "Look at those ridiculous scientists with their religious faith! Religious! Faith! See? They're just as bad as us!"
" So when someone rejects belief in God, is he not simply exchanging one type of faith for another?"
How long ago was this creationist junk debunked? Has no one told them?
"In some cases, disbelief appears to be a deliberate refusal to face the truth."
Does this make your blood boil?
first time i ever heard anyone say there was 'proof' of noah's flood.. very interesting,.
showed a trawler, where the team dredges regularly in the north sea - for animal bones, massive land animal bones, mammoths.. he said, originally, the bones were sent for analysis, and the dr stated, they were proof of noah's flood.. the north sea area was a land mass of dry grazing lands.
and it was very similar to africa.. many bones were found in london, of lions, hippos, etc ... when they were digging out the underground.. .
It seems the documentary was referring to Doggerland. Doggerland is the area now covered by the English Channel and the North Sea. It was once a fertile river basin inhabited by all manor of prehistoric life, including thousands of humans. At the end of the last ice age sea levels rose and submerged Doggerland under about 30m of water. This is in no way "proof" of Noah’s flood, because the submersion was complete by about 8000 years ago, and has never since subsided.
